Curse

NiknudStunod · May 22, 2005, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by nub

why do you HAVE to be at the top of the ladder, in order to be competitive? i'm quite sure you're not the only one without this and this elite skills, and are making do just fine being competitive and enjoying the game. and not being the l33test with the all the elites unlocked.

I am sorry that I wanted to be competitive in a competitive game. Isn't the reason to play in the ladders to get as high as possible? I am not talking about HoH or any of the other arenas. I am talking about GvG battles. I am far from being a crap player IMO. I have gone through the game once with my War/Mes and I don't really want to have to go back and farm for elite skills just to compete with the best. I never said i wanted to be leet but I guess its just a crime to want to do well in a game.

NiknudStunod · May 23, 2005, 12:05 AM // 00:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow_Avenger

Just a little observation.
The Rune drops etc are random, but also very very very rarely do you actually get a drop that is related to you class, I would say 75% of the time it is actually for a different class.

I.E. My main is R/Me and I have unlock vigor runes lesser / greater, all elementist minor runes, most minor monk runes,most warrior minor runes. All staff upgrades, some bow upgrades, most hammer upgrades and a couple of sword upgrades. etc etc. But have not yet found one Ranger Rune.

Elite skills, hmm they are supposed to be rare elite skills, hence not every one has them, You are ment to be lucky to find them. If everybody had them they may as well just be skills like the rest. They are not hugely more powerful than other skills, if used in conjunction with other elite skills they may be, but you can only use one at a time anyway.

If you are aiming to find that one elusive upgrade then folly you, you have just created a grind for yourself. On the other hand if you are just interested in playing and not bothered what you find, then there is actually no grind at all.

ALL GAMES get boring if you over dose on them. The "Grind" is totally dependant on how you play and what you want.

Now if thats all, the to grind or not to grind is not a game design flaw or advantage, but is relative to the player themselves. Please let this be the end of a pointless debate.

In order to get any variety in this game without having to go through from level 1 again is to grind with your main character. Without the grind you are pigeonholed into a few similar builds. If you do grind you are much more adaptable because you have a much wider variety of skills.

This game was pefect in BWE. The pve player got everything he wanted and the pvper got everything he wanted. IMO the devs for this game alienated a lot of the hard core pvpers instead of just keeping it as it was. If the game was released like it was during BWE the PvE crowd wouldn't of known the difference and the pvpers could of had there cake and ate it to.

Poppinjay · May 23, 2005, 01:22 AM // 01:22

I have a level 20 character and have not been able to get a single elite skill.

I can't even find access to all the normal skills.

PJ

elorei · May 23, 2005, 02:01 PM // 14:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Teh Azman

It's called elite for a reason...

yes, and the reason is because you are allowed ONE at a time on your skillbar.

thats it.

wait, are you going to tell me its called elite because only those people willing to spawn camp like everquest are allowed to get it?

relientK_fan · May 23, 2005, 02:04 PM // 14:04

Oh, please. Shut up and go play an FPS if you don't want a grind. Every RPG has a grind, so shut up. I personally like a bit of grind, but no EQ grind. Do us all a favor, and leave these forums, so we won't have to listen to your whining. Peace out.

elorei · May 23, 2005, 02:08 PM // 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by relientK_fan

Oh, please. Shut up and go play an FPS if you don't want a grind. Every RPG has a grind, so shut up. I personally like a bit of grind, but no EQ grind. Do us all a favor, and leave these forums, so we won't have to listen to your whining. Peace out.

well at least you are admitting there *IS* a grind.

and no, every rpg DOES NOT have a grind. every MMO in teh vein of everquest does, yes. this game was billed to be ANYTHING but that. there is the complaint.

im glad you like to grind. im glad you like to do the exact same mindless thing over and over and think it makes you skilled. awesome for you.

relientK_fan · May 23, 2005, 02:13 PM // 14:13

Yeah, every RPG does have a grind. Ever play Final Fantasy X? Grind. Ever play Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic? Grind. Ever play Kingdom Hearts? Grind. See where I'm going? If you like RPGs, you like grind. You don't like the one game that tries to eliminate it, so quit crying. You don't like grind. Go tell mommy. Boohoo. I like Guild Wars. I like the fact that it has less grind than other MMORPGs. Now, if you don't like it, simple as this: DON'T PLAY IT. Go play a game where there is not a grind. You'll be hard pressed to find one.

NiknudStunod · May 23, 2005, 02:14 PM // 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by relientK_fan

Oh, please. Shut up and go play an FPS if you don't want a grind. Every RPG has a grind, so shut up. I personally like a bit of grind, but no EQ grind. Do us all a favor, and leave these forums, so we won't have to listen to your whining. Peace out.

I really don't understand the need to post like this. You could list your reasons why you think we are wrong, but acting like a child and flaming people who want to talk about this issue pretty much just gets your entire post ignored.

NiknudStunod · May 23, 2005, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by relientK_fan

Yeah, every RPG does have a grind. Ever play Final Fantasy X? Grind. Ever play Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic? Grind. Ever play Kingdom Hearts? Grind. See where I'm going? If you like RPGs, you like grind. You don't like the one game that tries to eliminate it, so quit crying. You don't like grind. Go tell mommy. Boohoo. I like Guild Wars. I like the fact that it has less grind than other MMORPGs. Now, if you don't like it, simple as this: DON'T PLAY IT. Go play a game where there is not a grind. You'll be hard pressed to find one.

You need to understand what a grind is before you post. I have never had to grind in any single player rpg. The grind was created in the mmorpg's to increase the time it takes to complete a game. The only part about guildwars that takes less time is the time it takes to go from min level to max level. I have put 150 played hours into my war/mes and I still don't have everything I want. In comparison I could level out in WoW or DaoC in that time as well and because of the in game market get most of what I needed. Finally if you are going to flame please do it elsewhere.

elorei · May 23, 2005, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by relientK_fan

Yeah, every RPG does have a grind. Ever play Final Fantasy X? Grind. Ever play Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic? Grind. Ever play Kingdom Hearts? Grind. See where I'm going? If you like RPGs, you like grind. You don't like the one game that tries to eliminate it, so quit crying. You don't like grind. Go tell mommy. Boohoo. I like Guild Wars. I like the fact that it has less grind than other MMORPGs. Now, if you don't like it, simple as this: DON'T PLAY IT. Go play a game where there is not a grind. You'll be hard pressed to find one.

umm, how can you grind in KOTOR?
are you just making crap up now? did you use some uber secret hax or some crap to make stuff respawn? no? you are just talking out of your ass? ok, just making sure.

as to this game having LESS grind than other MMOs, thats debatable also. sure, you can get to lvl 20 in this game fast. thats like getting to lvl 5 in WOW. yay for you, you finished the tutorial. getting to 5 in WoW is no grind, getting to 20 in GW is no grind.

getting the skills you want? get ready for it. but hey! you like to grind. thats good, cause you will be.

Khrysyl · May 23, 2005, 02:33 PM // 14:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by NiknudStunod

I am sorry that I wanted to be competitive in a competitive game. Isn't the reason to play in the ladders to get as high as possible? I am not talking about HoH or any of the other arenas. I am talking about GvG battles. I am far from being a crap player IMO. I have gone through the game once with my War/Mes and I don't really want to have to go back and farm for elite skills just to compete with the best. I never said i wanted to be leet but I guess its just a crime to want to do well in a game.

So, tell me again, in a GvG battle, why is it neccessary for each and every participant to have such a wide variety of skills and runes? I though GvG was a team battle, but the way you describe it (and the way most hardcore PvP players seem to view it) it is every one for him/herself. "If *I* don't have every skill, I can't compete", seems to be the way most people view this, but the fact is, if GvG is a team endeavor then it is the team that needs a good mix of skills, not the individual.

Or does GvG have a different definition of team?

Loviatar · May 23, 2005, 02:48 PM // 14:48

according to some hardcore players they would not use elites if the others did not use them

someone said recently that since everybody is going after the top elites and equipment they HAD to get the same to be competitive

SOLUTION

GET RID OF ELITES IN PVP
GET RID OF SUPERIOR RUNES IN PVP
GET RID OF THE SUPER RARE WEAPON UPGRADES IN PVP

LEVEL PLAYING FIELD WITH MINIMUM WORK

BEFORE YELLING *I NEED IT* REMEMBER THAT THE OTHER PLAYER DOES NOT HAVE IT EITHER

[QUOTE]Sausaletus Rex

And while none of that is needed to have *a* win, it's necessary to have *many* wins - to be competitive - especially in an environment where everyone else can go out and obtain those advantages even if you don't. It's an arms race; if everyone could agree not to grind and to just PvP with premades and un-upgraded weapons then no one would have to bother with it but as soon as someone starts grinding then everyone else has to in order to catch up.[/QUOTE]

elorei · May 23, 2005, 02:51 PM // 14:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khrysyl

So, tell me again, in a GvG battle, why is it neccessary for each and every participant to have such a wide variety of skills and runes? I though GvG was a team battle, but the way you describe it (and the way most hardcore PvP players seem to view it) it is every one for him/herself. "If *I* don't have every skill, I can't compete", seems to be the way most people view this, but the fact is, if GvG is a team endeavor then it is the team that needs a good mix of skills, not the individual.

Or does GvG have a different definition of team?

and each team member should have the tools to benefit the team.

without the wide variety of skills, you are less versatile. without that versatility, you are less useful to the team. when the team is comprised of useless peope, the team is useless.

each and every participant MUST be at the top of their game, or they are not helping (and in some cases hindering) the team.

you know the old adage, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. same applies here.

maybe its ok with you to drag your team down from lack of usefulness in a pvp fight. most of us prefer to be a useful member, that contributes to the win. if you think you can help a team while using no runes and no elites, stay the hell offa my team, no offense to you personally.

Kismet · May 23, 2005, 02:53 PM // 14:53

I have only one Elite skill, and I got it during a mission very easily. Other members of my guild have spend alot of time trying to find their Elites, but that was part of the fun of getting them. I've never considered anything a grind in this game, including the infusion runs (which I found to be quite enjoyable). I guess it's how you look at it individually. There's no sense in arguing about it, everyone is going to see things from a different perspective.

NiknudStunod · May 23, 2005, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khrysyl

So, tell me again, in a GvG battle, why is it neccessary for each and every participant to have such a wide variety of skills and runes? I though GvG was a team battle, but the way you describe it (and the way most hardcore PvP players seem to view it) it is every one for him/herself. "If *I* don't have every skill, I can't compete", seems to be the way most people view this, but the fact is, if GvG is a team endeavor then it is the team that needs a good mix of skills, not the individual.

Or does GvG have a different definition of team?

You need to look at it from a broader point of view. The reason to have a variety of skills and spell is so you can adapt to your team. If you are in a large guild the chances that you will be fighting with the same people all the time are small.

For instance I am a Warrior/mes. Lets say I happen to be on a warrior heavy team. I will then put more of my Mes skills on my bar to help with interupts and such. Or lets say I am playing with 2 other mesmers on my team at the time and everyone has the same skill focus of domination. If I spent the time and got the skills from each of the other skill trees then I can switch my spec with ease. These are just a few of the reasons why the grind is so very important in this game.

Khrysyl · May 23, 2005, 03:01 PM // 15:01

edit: post deleted after reading more responses

ssnider75 · May 23, 2005, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Perhaps the best solution is to have different arenas. Have one that allows you to use only non-elite skills. That way, no one you are fighting with or against will have any skill you do not have. Have another arena that is unlimited. This arena is for the people that want to take the time to get all the elites.

This way, if you do not want to spend all that time looking for elite skills and using signet of capture, you don't have to and can still play on a level skill field.

Everyone is happy. The PvP'ers get the out of the box level playing field. The people that have to have every skill for PvP can still do that if they want. The PvE people keep playing the way that they are.

EnDinG · May 23, 2005, 03:32 PM // 15:32

This topic has been milked enough. Do a search for grind and have fun that way. New threads are far from needed.